I wanted to try converse.js but all of the public instances I could find didn't work.

#XMPP

@Goffi @Theeo123 @daniel @dino @gajim @Monal @tigase

IMHO, both have their right to exist and make sense for #dataHygiene!

Local deletion makes probably most sense on mobile devices, idk.

#Jabber #XMPP

@Theeo123

#JohanaBhuiyan suggests to #autoDelete messages and I agree with her.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/20/how-to-opt-out-location-sharing-smartphones

While this is not a "hard" security measure and might lead to a false sense of security, it is an easy and effective method of #dataHygiene.

I wonder, if any #Jabber clients have this feature?

#Conversations by @daniel, #Dino by @dino, #Gajim by @gajim, #Monal by @Monal, #SiskinIM by @tigase, anyone?

#XMPP

Does anyone knows about problems with the #XMPP server hookipa.net? I cannot connect to my account for ~ 12h.

💬 Xampu da Bolhinha

A Bolhinha tem um servidor XMPP, carinhosamente apelidado de Xampu.

Você que é bolhense pode conseguir sua conta mandando uma DM pra mim.

https://info.bolha.one/servicos/xmpp/

#XMPP #Xampu #BolhaInforma

@triskelion @signalapp

BS and Signal are both centralised, walled gardens, therefore I dislike them both. (BS can federate in theory, but I never found someone on their own instance.)

Anyway, it's nice, if people have their IRC, #Jabber or Matrix handles in their #fediverse bio. Whatever, as long as it is free and federated 🙂

#digitalSovereignty #XMPP

@vitali64sur @z3ntu

In the very special case of #Quicksy, #XMPP is used with phone number. Don't know about UX with changing phone number, but I guess, it is … complicated.

@daniel: I guess, that new phone number on Quicksy results in an entirely new account, no matter what. Right?

#Jabber

@z3ntu
#IRC: eh no phone number
#Matrix: eh no phone number
#XMPP: eh no phone number

Some #Jabber #XMPP rooms that are relevant to non-technical #Indian users.

The general channel for #India, #Indians, and #indophiles
https://xmpp.link/#india@conference.a3.pm?join

The #OpenStreetMap India community
https://xmpp.link/#osm-in@conference.a3.pm?join

A channel for learning, practicing, and enjoying the #Hindi and #Hindustani #languages.
https://xmpp.link/#hindi@conference.conversations.im?join

#boostswelcome

Monal 6.4.6 (Build 989, PR #1288) released.

- Fix regression when connecting solely using old STARTTLS connection method
- Fix crash when being unable to connect while creating new account
- Fix connection problems on slow connections
- Show timestamp of last received push in notification debug menu
- Fix various other crashes

#Monal #ios #macos #xmpp #im #chat #messaging

@xmppbrasil @hellbeast

There are two relevant #XEPs touching that:

XEP-0393: Message Styling (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0393.html) is vaguely similar to markdown, but not the same. It is supported by multiple clients.

XEP-0394: Message Markup (https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0394.html) seems to be preferred by most developers. In theory, a client could accept "proper markdown" as input and internally convert it to message markup. I'm not sure, but #prose by @prose might do something like that.

#Jabber #XMPP

I wonder if #XMPP will support proper markdown sometime

Like, it has styling and it works fine. I’ve gotten used to typing italics with underscores, but pretty sure it’d throw off someone who’s used to Markdown (which is somewhat standard through CommonMark and expected for most text styling nowadays, even here on Akkoma).

@unplugged @debacle I think Profanity supports history, but I'm not sure which combination of `/history` `/logging` or `/mam` is needed...

#xmpp

Should #Conversations_im add stun.conversations.im as a fallback for #XMPP servers missing XEP-0215: External Service Discovery?

I’ve hesitated to add anything resembling "calling home" (no update checker, no metrics).

However, the main goal here wouldn’t be improving A/V call success (though it helps) but making P2P file transfers more reliable. Many servers still lack HTTP Upload, and the refactored Jingle File Transfer would benefit greatly from a fallback STUN server.

@unplugged @dequbed @bootblackcub @prose

For my use case, I like #Dino not defaulting to #OMEMO #e2ee, because I like the convenience of being able to read old messages on a new client.

It is a by-account setting (☰ ⇒ Preferences ⇒ Encryption ⇒ OMEMO by default) btw.

The indication is pretty clear, IMHO: A open/closed lock on the right side of the text input field.

Maybe @dino can give more usage hints, than I would be able to do 🙂

#Jabber #XMPP

Oha, das ist provokativ: Dieser Blogartikel sagt:

- Nutzt kein #PGP / #GPG
- Nutzt kein #XMPP + OMEMO
- Nutzt kein #Matrix (im Sinne: verlasst euch nicht auf die Verschlüsselung)
- E-Mails verschlüsseln ist sinnlos

Ich kenne den Autor nicht und würde ihn nicht erwähnen, würde der Artikel nicht in ernstzunehmenden ITSec-Newslettern zitiert

https://soatok.blog/2024/11/15/what-to-use-instead-of-pgp/

Meinungen? #itsec #security

Anyone who used both Dino and Psi(+), how the first one compares to the second? 🤔

P.S. I wonder if Kaidan is alive…

#lang_en #xmpp #questions #dino #psi

@daniel You're beating a dead horse. There is absolutely nothing you can do that is going to convince most people to use #XMPP because it is the Linux of messaging platforms, It may be better, it may be more private and more secure, but people don't care about that. All they want is something super easy to set up and use, and they want to be on the platform that friends and family are using. And no, they have no desire whatsoever to host a server for friends and family, that's waaaay to complicated for them (even it it literally involved entering one command at a command prompt it would still be to complicated). And they actually trust a big corporation more to keep their conversations private than some XMPP service they have never heard of.

If the day ever comes when they do give a rat's ass about privacy it will be too late because by the the big corporations and the government will already know everything about them. But most people seem to think they have nothing to hide so why should they be concerned about privacy? And if the last election taught us anything it is that far too many people are totally gullible.

@ulfi @daniel
I recognized this "duplicated MUC messages" with Gajim only. And I think it happened when my Linux-PC recovered from standby. I think it only happened with MUCs on other servers but I am not sure.
But to be fair: Most new users I know only use one smartphone #XMPP app.

@ulfi @daniel

That being said, there is a lot of room for improvement, esp. with encryption, but also general usability in most #Jabber clients.

There are practically no #XMPP clients with good #accessibility, e.g. for blind users! (Still, blind friends of mine use #Quicksy.)

@ulfi @daniel

I experienced message loss and duplicated messages with #Jabber a lot. In … 2014! Not anymore.

Only with #slidge Matrix bridge I see duplicates. Probably a bug in #matridge.

I still experience #OMEMO problems, but only because I'm a geek and use a lot of clients, incl. experimental versions etc.

Bad clients or bad s2s are unavoidable in a free and federated system. Just recommend good clients and good servers!

#digitalSovereignty #digitalEmpowerment #UseJabberDoCrime #XMPP

@daniel A big worry of mine is that #XMPP aktually becomes successful and the big players jump on the train. I'm sure people will go to meta-xmpp and google-xmpp in masses. And i wouldn't have a free communication channel left.

We tried the "The NSA kills people based on meta data" approach and it did nothing to convince people to use #XMPP.
How about changing our messaging to: "Your crippling BNPL debt is a direct consequence of Google, Meta and ByteDance knowing every fucking thing about you"

@aks @kris

I use #slidge by @nicoco as bridge between #XMPP and Matrix. Works pretty well!

But I never tried with encryption, because I use Matrix only for public rooms anyway.

#Jabber

I think i should set up xmpp bridge for my matrix server.

But i believe this interoperability should be baked in both protocols. There is no excuse to "silo" them

#XMPP #Matrix

@maple @Menel @Monal @sbb

You can find #Jabber rooms at https://search.jabber.network/ With a typical #XMPP web client, you can enter any of them. (IIRC, IRC is not really federated?)

I use IRC, but only via an XMPP gateway (#biboumi), i.e. with the #Gajim client.

@Monal @sbb I think everyone is assuming I use a phone for messaging. I do not, and never will unless there is absolutely no other alternative. I use my desktop computer, which right now is running #Ubuntu Linux although I hope someday to switch (probably to PopOS with the Cosmic desktop when it is out of alpha/beta), but before that I used to run a 2014 Mac Mini with MacOS until Apple decided it was too old to run the latest version of their ever-increasingly enshittified operating system. So when I talk about #XMPP clients, I am specifically talking about clients that run on the Linux desktop or are cross-platform.

#Monal only seems to be for iOS and macOS and right now I am not running either of those, so can't try it. I remember trying it a few years ago in MacOS and I really did not like it then for reasons I can no longer recall, in fact I continued to use Adium which was a older than dirt program but yet it was the easiest to set up and configure (in part because it did not insist that the server have a valid certificate before it would even communicate with it). However it could only do text; trying to send images or files would always fail.

Now I am using #Gajim which is the only client I have found that ticks most of the boxes for desired functionality. It's not absolutely perfect but it's very usable once you get it configured correctly.

Also, I am not at this point real interested in using a public XMPP server because I only use XMPP for two reasons, to talk to and send files to other family members, and to get certain status messages from a couple of servers. None of that needs to be on a public server. And the main reason I stopped using IRC was because I didn't like it because nothing was permanent or searchable (which may be an advantage in some cases, but not if you are using it for software support or tech advice, where you could miss an answer to a question you asked if you log out or lose your network connection unexpectedly). But for one off casual use (where some software maker still thinks IRC is the bees knees), it is possible to connect to a web-based IRC client and ask your question, without even setting up a client, in fact on some servers you don't even need to log in.

I'm not saying no one should use XMPP rather than IRC, there are almost certainly use cases where XMPP is the best choice, but you will never convince me that it's easier to use. Not that I would want to use either one for group chats, but with LIRC I can simply go to a server site and go to their web client, select a user name, and join a particular chat using the chat name. With XMPP I would need to install software, figure out how to connect it to a server (and probably login) and then configure it, knowing full well I'd be lucky to find more than a handful of people in the same room. IRC was great before we had web-based forums, but not that many people want to sit around and wait for someone to show up that they may want to chat with (gamers MAY be an exception to that but I am not a gamer so can't speak to that).

Umpopular opinion: #IRC is sort of like the Iron Maiden of instant messaging, and should be relegated to the obscure mists of history, like gopher.

#XMPP should now occupy that nostalgic "place of pride" for geeks instead, as the "baseline" of old-school IRC-like instant messaging. Especially since lightweight, TUI-based XMPP clients exist, which would even run on the very cheap, slowest of Raspberry Pi's (which are not embedded controllers). Yes, the usability of today's XMPP clients is rough-around-the edges, *but it's an order of magnitude less rough than IRC*.

Now that OMEMO is reliable across the board (to my knowledge), I see it as an obvious "must-have", just like SSL is the assumed baseline of acceptable security these days for all websites (now that certbot makes it so quick and easy to have).

Now that we are entering times where privacy and security are seen as must-haves, it's as though end-to-end encryption is to Instant Messaging, as SSL is to web hosting.

#encryption #infosec #SelfHosting #SSL

@sbb

> Yes, the usability of today's XMPP clients is rough-around-the edges, *but it's an order of magnitude less rough than IRC*.

Are you kidding? With IRC you just install a client or use an online one, pick a server and /join the channel you want to join. With #XMPP, if you try to set up a client and have never done it before you are in for a very bad time. This is partly because there is little to no good documentation aimed at users, or better yet, good videos showing how to do the install and setup. Also the privacy and security you value implies that the server must have valid and current certificates, which are a pain in the ass to deal with if you are just trying to (for example) set up a Prosody server for friends and/or family to use.

If you really are trying to sell this, you (or someone) needs to make some good clear user-focused videos that 1) are not written or produced by programmers (most programmers seem genetically incapable of speaking in language that mere users can relate to) and that 2) do not include any unnecessary talk about things not relevant to the installation. That means no history of IRC or XMPP, no philosophizing about why XMPP is better, nothing other than how to install and configure the client to connect to the desired free XMPP server. If a video is more than about five minutes long chances are you're including too much irrelevant detail.

By the way I don't use IRC anymore and haven't in a long time, but I did try to set up a few different XMPP clients to work with a Prosody server and while I finally got Gajim to work after a few DAYS of trying, it's not an experience I would want to repeat anytime soon. Saying that today's XMPP clients are rough-around-the edges is quite the understatement (not that the servers are any better), in some cases whoever coded them may like how they work but most users would not be able to figure them out without it being way more painful than it should be.

Sorry if I seem a little sour but that really was a terrible experience, very few things have been that much trouble to get working.

@maple I have a running list of usability "papercuts" (in #Conversations, the only #XMPP client I feel is worth recommending so far):

https://c.im/@sbb/113475805013117867

To this I would add a 5): doesn't show the number of new messages on the home screen icon, as in other IM (showing a small red circle with a number inside. See the "2" in the screenshot.)

PS: I'm considering making a private little "mkdocs" wiki with just such a short video in it (embedded, not in YouTube, which comments on my specific server's tailored settings. Just for my users. Then set an .htaccess password on it, just to be shared around in my circle.)

Alt...

Conversations doesn't show the number of new messages on the home screen screen icon, as other IMs (showing a small red circle with a number inside. See the "2" in the screenshot.). Signal shows 2 such new messages.

monocles chat version 1.7.11 is finally out on Playstore ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.monocles.chat ) and on F-Droid ( https://f-droid.org/packages/de.monocles.chat/ ) . Enjoy the new animated inline stickers, the WebXDC "store" to use little in-app widgets or games and many improvements and fixes! 🤩 🎉

#monocles #monocleschat #fdroid #android #xmpp #jabber #privacy #security

No me explico como mi servidor #XMPP tarda tanto, a veces, en bajar adjuntos tan pequeños. No sé si es cosa del cliente o tema servidor. En #Conversations sí pasa, pero menos. En @dino ocurre mucho.

Have you used Jabber / XMPP before?

#jabber #xmpp

#XMPP has continued to evolve and improve over the many years I've been using it. But despite the development effort going into it, there aren't as many people joining it as there should.

We can thank hype and neomania for that. These factors ensure that proprietary/centralized networks (the latter includes #Matrix) receive more funding and more code contributors. More funding results in better marketing and stronger network effect.

1/

This took a while but we have updated our Code of Conduct and our Mediation document to provider more safety in our spaces.

Among others the CoC now specifies explicitly marginalized people, intersectional feminism and harassing/stalking. It also mentions permacomputing and consent as a way we approach computing.

The mediation document has a defined procedure now and also contact points for people wanting to report things.

https://joinjabber.org/about/community/codeofconduct/
https://joinjabber.org/about/community/mediation/

#xmpp #jabber #CoC

Agora você pode ter uma conta #xampu.net cadastrando diretamente por qualquer app compativel ou no nosso site: https://xmpp.eco.br/#registro

Aproveite! É de graça <3

@xmpp

#jabber #XMPPBrasil #xmpp

@bootblackcub We are obviously biased, but #XMPP is much lighter on server rescources, so you will probably have less issues with it on Yunohost. And maybe someone will add the #Slidge Matrix bridge to Yunohost?

I fear this my be a risk of starting something.
Yunohost has separated out their xmpp feature.
So I'm going to ask a question. Would people recommend I set up xmpp or should I set up matrix?
(Theoretically I could install both, but I want to stop collecting accounts to monitor)
#xmpp #matrix #askFedi

@teledyn @zash How about trying https://snikket.org/ ? It's a preconfigured Prosody server with compatible apps. Also check out our website at: https://joinjabber.org #xmpp #jabber

@loriemerson @teledyn @x_tof

Prompted by #Facebook #Messenger's new rules, I revisited #xmpp and put up #Prosody but of course there's no one to call. Looking for EASY on-ramps for Other People I found the https://conversations.im app as an option. Any other open IM hosts/clients to know?

Sadly, #Nextcloud HAD jsxc but as with many great apps, the jump to laravel stranded them and the dev couldn't be bothered.

Has anyone used #FreedomBox?

@prav is looking for some sponsors to renew SMS subscription with Twilio. We send SMS OTP to verify users before creating an account. We raised some funds for specific projects like building Prav for iOS and adding custom username support, but no funds towards running costs yet (hosting charges are already sponsored). So consider donating at https://prav.app/donate/

#prav #xmpp #FreeSoftware

Was passiert, wenn zwei XMPP-Fans (@zwecki und ich) zwei Matrix-Nerds (@kilian und @mcnesium) in ihren Podcast einladen?

Das könnt ihr in der neuesten (und ersten) Sonderfolge von @rebootpolitics hören.

Der Folgentitel gibt eventuell schon einen Hinweis^^'

Der 1. Matrix-Stammtisch in #Dresden - Sonderfolge mit Kilian und Marc

https://podcasts.homes/@rebootpolitics/episodes/der-1-matrix-stammtisch-in-dresden-sonderfolge-mit-kilian-und-marc

#RebootPolitics #Podcast #XMPP #Matrix #MatrixDD

Alt...

4 Menschen an einem beklebten Konferenztisch mit Laptops und Mikrofonen, 1 Person ist offensihtlich in das Bild kopiert. Von links nach rechts Kilian, Marc, Flo und ich, Ückück. Unten im Bild ist der pixelige "Reboot Politics" Schriftzug, oben und unten ein türkiser und grüner Balken.

@ueckueck @zwecki @kilian @mcnesium @rebootpolitics

da hoer ich gerne rein. schliesslich sollten wir mit #xmpp und #matrix zusammenhalten.

I am currently seeking sources of funding for various projects within Mellium. If you're aware of any grants (specific calls please), individuals, etc. that would be interested in funding any of these projects, please get in touch!

- Implementing better authentication (SASL2) for quicker reconnects, better mobile support, and increased security
- Rewriting the Communiqué UI to enable screen reader and braille display support
- Faster XML parsing for Go
- Your project here?

#golang #xmpp

Imma set up @ejabberd and kick the tires on some #XMPP clients later this week. If any is up for some test chats, let me know.

The #XMPP Newsletter for October 2024 is out!

Read about the latest XMPP universe updates and the latest updates on our #standards!

https://xmpp.org/2024/11/the-xmpp-newsletter-october-2024/

Enjoy reading! 📰 ☕

#jabber #chat #interoperability #rtc
#opensource #decentralization

Alt...

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What term do you use when talking about #xmpp with friends and family in the physical realm? “XMPP” is a bit of a mouthful, not quite as friendly as “signal” or “telegram”.